in Ziwan a) and c) would be expressed with resumptive structures
a)
gwə̄ rwù-tjəŋ djwə́ fà pjə̀xjīxjī wá-tjəŋ xwù kjə̀ tsátsi-jə m̀
[man big=CLF TOP] [3SG look_for] [RP=CLF PST go Tsat=E toward]
‘he looked for the big man, who had gone to Tsat’
c)
'since he was in Tsat/having gone to Tsat, he visited the monuments'
——
h13:
ntsháhéŋ yɔq wúy ŋáád na ɴqeèf ʔistháaŋʔephyɛ́ɛy
ntshááh-eŋ=yɔq wúy ŋáád=ŋa ɴqef ʔi-stháŋ-ʔe-phí-ɛɛy
long_island=LOC=CTOP HON emperor=TOP do_in_shallow_water ITR.ALLO-alight.IRR-NEG-down-PFV.IRR
"the emperor did not stop at long island"
nort:
was about to say the ziwan topic marker could be similar but when there are resumptive pronouns what's the point, you could just do long_island-CLF emperor HON-CLF NEG PST AND COP.MAJ RP-CLF E LOC
maybe the "topic marker" is just semi-redundant marking of a topicalized non-subject or oblique tho
ziwan grammar seems to just be left edge topicalization, resumptives, and ezafe
fuq which one is andative and which is venitive
——
2/11/22
like, verbal categories that exist are egophoricity and some sort of tense-aspect
everything else can just be particles
and all the inflectional complexity can be diverted into the nominal categories of possession, definiteness, maybe some of the verbal marking is even clitics on the noun phrase
presumably on the subject, with null subjects mandatory and a marked nominative for agents displaced rightward of the verb
H13 — 02/11/2022
begome hlu-kangshi intermediate
and replace tense-aspect with mood
kangshi has secondary aspect marking from older serial verbs
in its finite forms it’s basically ubghuu
but the nonfinite system is significantly different
i guess it also distinguishes more aspects, ubghuu has a periphrastic construction for continuous aspect, whereas in kangshi it’s morphological
hm so what if in pre-zzyxwqnp the pronouns were all V-final
and there were some post-subject clitics to mark TAM, which got reduced to -C
——
Substance words must be disyllabic; however, there are presumably expanded form / short form alternations as in Mandarin. Expansions of historically monosyllabic words can be a source of fine semantic contrasts and dialectal variation; however, the population movements resulting from the Rau War will have resulted in some degree of dialect leveling, so expanded forms and short forms need not be particularly related.
Short forms, being used for (established background information?), may be more semantically general than expanded forms, and multiple expanded forms may share a short form.
English-style tense/aspect system. Development:
- Minor/major form retained as forms of the present.
- Future form is retained and develops into an immediate future, contrasting with a general future; the immediate future, however, is marked as informal and is better preserved in rural dialects, causing it not to have a major form until the aftermath of the Rau War, at which point one is formed analogically and the immediate future gains ground at the expensive of the general.
- The imperfective sense of the bare augmented stem is lost, and it comes to be used as a plain verbal noun. Periphrastic forms are generally formed from either the augmented stem or one of two innovated deverbals, and the two types of periphrastic form contrast in adverb placement and such.
So the forms of the verb are:
- Present minor
- Present major
- Immediate future minor
- Immediate future major
- General future minor
- General future major
- Augmented
- Present deverbal
- Past deverbal
Presumably most of these are predictable.
An example verb: (*kuma *kumakuma *cokuma *kumake 'bring')
Present minor: trupkun
Present major: kungun
Immediate future minor: trupxun
Immediate future major: xungun
General future minor: ?
General future major: ?
Augmented: kunge
Present deverbal: ?
Past deverbal: ?
a)
gwə̄ rwù-tjəŋ djwə́ fà pjə̀xjīxjī wá-tjəŋ xwù kjə̀ tsátsi-jə m̀
[man big=CLF TOP] [3SG look_for] [RP=CLF PST go Tsat=E toward]
‘he looked for the big man, who had gone to Tsat’
c)
'since he was in Tsat/having gone to Tsat, he visited the monuments'
——
h13:
ntsháhéŋ yɔq wúy ŋáád na ɴqeèf ʔistháaŋʔephyɛ́ɛy
ntshááh-eŋ=yɔq wúy ŋáád=ŋa ɴqef ʔi-stháŋ-ʔe-phí-ɛɛy
long_island=LOC=CTOP HON emperor=TOP do_in_shallow_water ITR.ALLO-alight.IRR-NEG-down-PFV.IRR
"the emperor did not stop at long island"
nort:
was about to say the ziwan topic marker could be similar but when there are resumptive pronouns what's the point, you could just do long_island-CLF emperor HON-CLF NEG PST AND COP.MAJ RP-CLF E LOC
maybe the "topic marker" is just semi-redundant marking of a topicalized non-subject or oblique tho
ziwan grammar seems to just be left edge topicalization, resumptives, and ezafe
fuq which one is andative and which is venitive
——
2/11/22
like, verbal categories that exist are egophoricity and some sort of tense-aspect
everything else can just be particles
and all the inflectional complexity can be diverted into the nominal categories of possession, definiteness, maybe some of the verbal marking is even clitics on the noun phrase
presumably on the subject, with null subjects mandatory and a marked nominative for agents displaced rightward of the verb
H13 — 02/11/2022
begome hlu-kangshi intermediate
and replace tense-aspect with mood
kangshi has secondary aspect marking from older serial verbs
in its finite forms it’s basically ubghuu
but the nonfinite system is significantly different
i guess it also distinguishes more aspects, ubghuu has a periphrastic construction for continuous aspect, whereas in kangshi it’s morphological
hm so what if in pre-zzyxwqnp the pronouns were all V-final
and there were some post-subject clitics to mark TAM, which got reduced to -C
——
Substance words must be disyllabic; however, there are presumably expanded form / short form alternations as in Mandarin. Expansions of historically monosyllabic words can be a source of fine semantic contrasts and dialectal variation; however, the population movements resulting from the Rau War will have resulted in some degree of dialect leveling, so expanded forms and short forms need not be particularly related.
Short forms, being used for (established background information?), may be more semantically general than expanded forms, and multiple expanded forms may share a short form.
English-style tense/aspect system. Development:
- Minor/major form retained as forms of the present.
- Future form is retained and develops into an immediate future, contrasting with a general future; the immediate future, however, is marked as informal and is better preserved in rural dialects, causing it not to have a major form until the aftermath of the Rau War, at which point one is formed analogically and the immediate future gains ground at the expensive of the general.
- The imperfective sense of the bare augmented stem is lost, and it comes to be used as a plain verbal noun. Periphrastic forms are generally formed from either the augmented stem or one of two innovated deverbals, and the two types of periphrastic form contrast in adverb placement and such.
So the forms of the verb are:
- Present minor
- Present major
- Immediate future minor
- Immediate future major
- General future minor
- General future major
- Augmented
- Present deverbal
- Past deverbal
Presumably most of these are predictable.
An example verb: (*kuma *kumakuma *cokuma *kumake 'bring')
Present minor: trupkun
Present major: kungun
Immediate future minor: trupxun
Immediate future major: xungun
General future minor: ?
General future major: ?
Augmented: kunge
Present deverbal: ?
Past deverbal: ?