(actually, people rarely ever acknowledge defeat in zbb arguments.)

pthagnar says that martyrdom is essential to marxist salvation in a way that doesn't apply to christian salvation. my suggestion is that suffering helps you meet the conditions for christian salvation as well, so it is desirable to dole it out to christians in measured doses. mother teresa appears to agree. any ideas on how i might be mistaken? ()

(also hallow, i'm not sure it's possible to "out-argue" him, because this is less about being correct or incorrect than establishing whether pthagnar's arguments are consistent by his own standards. i'm trying to understand what those standards are, (assuming it's even possible to construct a reasonably consistent interpretation of his views) blowing his jokes out of all proportion in the process. it's always possible to give up playing the game of generality and say that X should be judged by different standards than Y because the X are my people, but at whatever points he does that, i might choose to respond, "well, the Y are my people." (but it's also possible to argue people into supporting different things, so) (edit: actually, i'm not sure how charitable it is to attribute tribalism to nietzsche. indirectly maybe, but nietzsche was usually in favor of greatness, which begs the question of why you think some people are great, leading you back into the world of consistency. then again, it's not like i read nietzsche particularly attentively, so i don't know.))