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? Hallow XIII Primordial Crab
posts: 488
, 巴塞尔之子
quoting Rhetorica, Kelatetía: Dis, Major Belt 1:

Hayen na methikê u mhethênî mahâlu i-phâwrâ, och inna lhumben fâ khôrchandâ kathûlhû hêk.
I knew that this language was spoken by Space Aliens, but I didn't think they were Cthulhu worshippers.
in thread: Speak in Your Conlang Thread
? Rhetorica Sleepless Scribe
posts: 1211
, Kelatetía: Dis, Major Belt 1
Adía kela! Saitshéa ola selli genessóno hé gí novéne idzhíza. Ïa, dazóain haiteníta!
Such fortune [Great breeze]! This season gives to us cruelty, and nought besides. O, that we would be given clouds!
in thread: Speak in Your Conlang Thread
? Izambri Left of the middle
posts: 748
, Duke, the Findible League
Saisevelh te sarrude aget èu ont nais iseus dou ersis.
To be honest this is one of the coolest summers I remember.
in thread: Speak in Your Conlang Thread
? dhok The Last Aristocrat
posts: 231
, Alkali Metal, Tokyo, Japan
-5500 BW:


Intensive agriculture has developed in the upper tributaries of the Myà river (Proto-Sylatic *myah 'wide'), though it has not yet translated to urban centers or civilization; it won't for some time yet.

Implements and tools consistent with earlier finds around the small peninsula on the northern coast (if the Myà is the Nile, Shit Carthage?) are now being found in the coast around the lower Myà valley. This is consistent with an eastward migration of Nahuatolians.

Not much happens for the next few centuries. By around -4000, however, agriculture (consisting mainly of maize [Proto-Syletic *tɯdzą́), black beans (PS *madrɤ́ŋ) and barley (*tyák) has migrated around the Shit Tibetan foothills and down the Myà.


Note that the Syletics are not the only people to be farming, by now. (Grey areas are those where somebody is farming, but we don't know who.) Both the Nahuatolians and the Steppe Weebs are farming by now: the Nahuatolians along the lower Myà and the Steppe Weebs along the, let's say, Rannako (meaning to be established). Contact between the Syletics and the Nahuatolians is reflected in a very old and deep layer of borrowed vocabulary: Proto-Eastern-Nahuatolian *tɨtsa:n 'maize', matalɨ:ŋ 'beans', ča:k 'barley', though this layer is not reflected in the Steppe Weeb languages.

We'll end with the -3000 BW map.


This is the last snapshot of the world before things really get interesting: by -2000 BW we see the first evidence of copper working among the Syletics, and the Steppe Weebs will have domesticated the horse and invented the wheel. Agriculture continues its relentless march; it is now more than a footnote among the Steppe Weebs, and has spread to the less thickly forested portion of Shit Europe, including Yaravic speakers. Agriculture has also spread across the fertile northern coast and down the (river) and (river) to other varieties of Nahuatolians.
in thread: dhoklang scratchpad...3.0? NP: Bosporan
? dhok The Last Aristocrat
posts: 231
, Alkali Metal, Tokyo, Japan
New map. Climates should baaasically remain the same. Shit Tibet has been ensmallened. The "highland" areas are generally speaking areas truly inaccessible to organized, dense agricultural civilization—there may be control over these areas, but rarely real domination.

We arbitrarily set the date for the development of agriculture at -6000 BW (before writing). Here's a map of the area around -7000 BW, just before that point. The scratchy color indicates that they have not yet developed agriculture.


The speakers of the Sylatic languages were probably the first to develop agriculture, around -6000, in the upper tributaries of the Myà river. They are vaguely like Sino-Tibetan.

Yaravic is first encountered in the western half of Shit Europe. Proto-Yaravic has not been worked out but is likely Siouanish or Caddoanish aesthetically.

Shit Nahuatolian is spoken on the northern coast of Shit Asia, around the <name> mountains.

Shit Turkoskogean is spoken along the far western coast of Shit Europe.

Shit Japonic is spoken in Shit Kazakhstan.

Shit Athabantu is spoken in the southeastern extremity of Shit America.

Shit Quechuanesian is spoken on the coastal plateau of Shit America, which is vaguely reminiscent of Brazil.

Shit India is uninhabited at the moment, but this will change. There are likely other isolates or families in the area that survive to be documented, but they have not been worked out.
in thread: dhoklang scratchpad...3.0? NP: Bosporan
? dhok The Last Aristocrat
posts: 231
, Alkali Metal, Tokyo, Japan
Here is an Map, showing two major unnamed continents and a pseudo-India that is about ten million years away from crashing into the bigger continent in the east; it has already raised a shit Tibet which may be too big.


The map represents a sizeable portion of the world from 20 to 50 degrees South. The short black lines on the eastern edge represent 30 and 40 degrees, respectively. Assuming an equirectangular projection (which we will), this map represents a slice of the world about 56 degrees wide. Pretending that this world is about Earth-size, the equivalent area is more or less equivalent to this:


except that less of it is desert.

Cradles of civilization are likely to be in "Asia" in the river valleys coming off of Shit Tibet. Later on agriculture moves west into the large and fertile peninsula of Shit Europe, and southeast into Shit Kazakhstan in the river valleys flowing into the Aral. The bright red line represents a latitude north of which the original farmers' grain crops cannot grow.

There is likely to be a fair amount of agriculture in the northern half of Shit Tibet, but it's not clear to me how high or, indeed, big Shit Tibet is going to be. It is not likely to be easily conquerable by flatlanders (cf. Tibet, Ethiopia, Afghanistan). Shit Tibet should, if I'm getting my climatology right, be getting rain from the northeast (possibly including the occasional hurricane; my assumption was that you'd get desert inland, but maybe not) and also from the southwest, because the 30 S parallel, where the prevailing winds reverse, runs right through it. If so there should also be a fertile strip of land running right down the coast which may possibly act like Italy or Greece, though probably with a climate more akin to the American East Coast than to the Mediterranean (probably the large peninsula of fertile land that forms the western part of the continent will have a climate very much like the American South—rice farmers? corn farmers?

"America" is close enough to be crossed by, probably, the Bronze Age. There are probably some island chains between "Asia" and "America" that I haven't drawn, so possibly even earlier. Maritime empires?
in thread: dhoklang scratchpad...3.0? NP: Bosporan
? dhok The Last Aristocrat
posts: 231
, Alkali Metal, Tokyo, Japan
how do I change the post title

Too hot and sticky to do any real work, and Chinese air conditioning is extremely milquetoast, so time for an a priori Thing. First, the inventory of Pre-Proto-Thing.

*p *t *tʃ *k *ʔ
*b *d *dʒ *g
*ᵐp *ⁿt *ⁿtʃ *ᵑk
*ᵐb *ⁿd *ⁿdʒ *ᵑg
*m *n *ŋ
*θ *s *x *h
*ð *z *ɣ *ɦ
*w *r *y
*w̃ *ỹ

*i *ɯ *u
*e *ɤ *o

Pre-Proto-Thing (let's say the root for 'speak' was *sat, with 'speech' being *sɯlat—so Pre-Proto-Sylatic) roots of the form C(R)VC. Words were generally up to three syllables long, as Pre-Proto-Sylatic allowed prefixes CV- infixes -VC- and suffixes -V(C) on roots. Thus:

*sat 'speak (singular object)'
*sotat 'speaker' (agentive)
*satVk 'speak (plural object)'
*sinat 'speak using' (instrumental applicative)

and so on and so forth.

Between Pre-Proto-Sylatic and Proto-Sylatic, a number of changes take place.

- Prenasalized stops and nasalized sonorants merge with their non-nasalized counterparts, becoming nasalization on a preceding vowel. Seven nasal vowels soon collapse to three— *ę *ǫ merge to *į *ų, *ɤ̃ becomes *ą, and *ɯ̃ merges with *ų if next to a labial and *į otherwise.

- *tʃ *dʒ become *ts *dz but change a following *ɯ *ɤ to /i e/ (this postdates the above change).

- Finally, the language develops sequisyllables. The root vowel remains stressed, and a preceding syllable developing from an infix or prefix becomes a sequisyllable. In sequisyllables any high vowel collapses to /ɯ/, and any non-high vowel collapses to /a/. However, the vowels spit out glides, so *C[i į] > Cyɯ, *C[u ų] > Cwɯ, and Ce Co > Cya Cwa. Nasalized vowels are oralized without a trace. Final syllables also become semi-sequisyllabalized insofar as their vowels undergo the same collapse (but without the glide development).

Thus, in Proto-Sylatic proper:

*p *t *ts *k *ʔ
*b *d *dz *g
*m *n *ŋ
*θ *s *x *h
*ð *z *ɣ *ɦ
*w *r *y

*i *į *ɯ *u *ų
*e *ɤ *o
*a *ą

with a word structure (σ₁)σ₂(σ₃), where σ₁ is C(w j)[a ɯ] and σ₃ is [a ɯ]C.

Proto-Sylatic can be described as generally isolating. There is a small amount of inflection: verbs with plural objects take the ending -ak, and pronouns show signs of an earlier accusative ending . They also have object clitic forms on verbs with no final sequisyllable, preceded by -ɯ- (the plural -ak seems to be older and irregular). Nouns have no morphological plural (their plurality will be marked on the verb if they're objects, however).

nom acc clitic possessive
1sg *sap *sąp *=s *paŋ
2sg *dɤ *dɤŋ *=d *dɤŋ
3sg *ha *haŋ *=ʔ *haŋ
1pl *θaw *θoŋ *=t *θoŋ
2pl *ye *yeŋ *=y *yeŋ
3pl *ka *kaŋ *=k *kaŋ


The syntax is strongly head-initial and VSO, but the clitic system suggests that this may have been a recent development, perhaps with an earlier VOS stage.

θaŋak-ak tsįg wa myo dzi
kill-pl man the cow PST
'The man killed (some) cows.'

za=s tsįg wa dzi
see=1sg man the PST
'The man saw me'.

Topics may be brought to the front with the marker ney.

myo ney θaŋak-ak tsįg wa dzi
cow TOP kill-pl man the PST
'As for cows, the man killed some.'

Adjectives are stative verbs:

myo wa lɤŋ
cow the big
'The cow is big.'

Both relative clauses and attributive adjectives are formed with the subordinator kya:

θaŋak-ak tsįg wa lɤŋ kya myo dzi
kill-PL man the big SUB cow PST
'The man killed some big cows'.

za θaŋak-ak myo dzi kya tsįg wa prɤj dzi
see kill-PL cow PST SUB man the fire PST
'The man who killed some cows saw fire.'

Negation is accomplished with the verb θe, which takes any object marking or clitics and changes the rest of the sentence to SVO:

θe myo wa θaŋak paŋ hų dzi
not cow the kill my father PST
'The cow didn't kill my father.'

θe=s zaza paŋ hų
not=me look my father
'My father isn't looking at me.'

Questions are formed with the sentence-initial (but non-syntax-changing) particle naʔ:

naʔ zaza=k dɤ myo wa
Q look you cow the
'Are you looking at the cows?'

Further aspects of syntax are difficult to reconstruct. It's known that aspectual and tense particles came sentence-finally, as we've seen with dzi. The clitic system in verbs is based only on a single descendant; there may have been other inflectional categories which were not preserved in any daughter.
in thread: dhoklang scratchpad...3.0? NP: Bosporan
? Rhetorica Sleepless Scribe
posts: 1211
, Kelatetía: Dis, Major Belt 1
I feel like Inggirian is cruisin' for a lenition/elision bruisin'. Have you considered re-recording the above while suitably drunk, just to hasten the game of broken telephone that is sound change? There are a lot of codas that your tongue really surfs over, and it seems that as far as syllable space is concerned there's a lot of empty room for simpler words. weilgegdiesden for "[he] scattered [them]" is pretty brutal, and not just because "geg" is a ridiculous syllable.
in thread: Conlang recordings thread
yangfiretiger121 posts: 1
, lurker message
Aʻatun [ˈɑ.ʕɑ.tʉn] is both the home galaxy and official language of the Skaran Empire. The language used aspirated, tenuis, and ejective stops. Speakers aspirated or ejected initial stops and a few other consonants before mid vowels [ᴇ ⱺ]. Eventually, aspirated consonants evolved into, sometimes different, fricatives ([pʰ→f]). Could ejective consonants have become non-ejective ([kʼ→k])? Could [bʰ] have become [ʋ]?

The language treats the character representing [i j] and <ϙ>, which represents [ɑ ʕ], as semivowels. This means certain words, such as Aʻatun, would, logically, have three of the same character in a row in local script. To avoid this, the intervocalic character has a turned comma above it. Thus, Aʻatun is spelled ϙϙ̒tuɤ locally. I will replace <tu> with the local characters when I figure them out. ϙ represents a gavel, and ɤ represents a ram's horn.
in thread: Aʻatun Scratchpad
? Hallow XIII Primordial Crab
posts: 488
, 巴塞尔之子
I translated the Babel story into Inggirian and recorded it.

1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

Hers-e ialy maxt byrxgam, maxt lerielgem byragan.
earth-EZ all one language-INST, one speech-INST speak-PST-3sS.REAL

2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

Nuxymg uraigam iendesdeni amg-a sinaraw balxune tyrylsydwany aigaw terimx tuilagasdan.
people east-ABL travel-3pS.REAL-SEQ land-EZ Shinar-LOC plain find-3pA-3sO-SEQ that-LOC live-INF decide-PST-3pS.REAL

3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

"Amylysgaw, hilte werbes ihlesigwisin" amh maxt maxtagu baswagan.
come-1pS.IRR, brick make-CVB burn-1pA-3pO.IRR QUOT one one-DAT say-PST-3sS.REAL

4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

Yw "amylysgaw, hieling tusyr-a deirxegu hamnangmag hal wereng awlsygwysyny magw wereng bangsygwyn hyal ga weilgeisgu hers-e ialyaw" amh baswagasdan.
and come-1pS.IRR, city tower-EZ heaven-DAT reach-PART-COM two make-PART erect-1pA-3pS.IRR-SEQ name make-PART take-1pA-3sO.IRR so_that NEG scatter-1pS.IRR earth-EZ all-LOC QUOT say-PST-3pS.REAL

5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

Armat gunw amylang hieling tusyrmag-a galmun nuxymgdun wereng awlagsydwasdan hal wiedegdiesden.
LORD down come-PART city tower-COM-EZ man-GEN people-3sPOSS-ERG build-PART erect-PST-3pA-3sO.REAL two see-PST-3sA-3pO.REAL

6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Yw "Wied, maxt nuxymg yryx, banyg maxt byrxysd yryxgam aig uwx walyasdan. Hig ninggun-e uwx wyndsydwany uwx ga hadgasdan waid yryn."
and see, one people be-INF. also one language-3pPOSS be-INF-ABL this do-INF begin-3pS.REAL. now thing-GEN-EZ do-INF want-3pA-3sO.REAL-SEQ do-INF NEG able-3pS.REAL none be-3sS.IRR

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

"Amylysgaw, gunw ragysgawy migaw byrxysd turxtamsygwyn hyal ga hegreng mulgsydwyn lerielisd maxtun maxt."
come-1pS.IRR, down go-1pS.IRR-SEQ that-LOC speech-3pPOSS confuse-CAUS-1pA-3sO.IRR so_that NEG hear-PART find-3pA-3sO.IRR language-3pPOSS one-ERG another.

8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

Yw Armatun mingmag hers-e ialyaw weilgegdiesden, yw tusyr wereng awlx martagasdan.
and LORD-ERG that-ABL earth-EZ all-LOC scatter-PST-3sA-3pO.REAL, and tower build-PART erect-INF stop-PST-3pS.REAL

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

Armatun migaw hers-e ialywn byrxd turxtamagdyany nuxymg weilgegdiesden ninggun andralmag-a aigd wasywn-a migun magwd Babel yran.
LORD that-LOC earth-EZ all-GEN language-3sPOSS confuse-CAUS-PST-3sA-3sO.REAL-SEQ people scatter-PST-3sA-3pO.REAL thing-GEN reason-ABL-EZ this-3sPOSS place-GEN-EZ this-GEN name-3sPOSS Babel be-3sS.REAL.
in thread: Conlang recordings thread