Anthologica Universe Atlas / Forums / Department of Creativity / Newtlang incubator (NP: glot-taolic theory)
I'm not sure I like the above. What I wanted was what noobish me made with these tables:
Because they are pretty.
On the other hand, I would like to consider Proto-Sylgwn.
Suppose Elmin's vowel system was actually a result of ATR: so /e V u/ with ATR, /E a o/ without, and /i 1/ are neutral. This probably isn't how ATR works, but I'm rolling with it anyway.
NC > C. NN > N' (the ' marks fortis, idk what it is.)
ATR correlates with breathy voice, so following stops become breathy-voiced > devoiced. This probably isn't how things work either, but I am beyond caring right now.
I think the vowel system right now does a Tocharian. Perhaps even identically, except that I also want to pull a labialization contrast out of there.
Syncope affects every other syllable; the stressed syllable is the one that is not syncoped.
NC > CC, so now we have /p p: p:' b b: b:'/. The outcome of this varies per position, however:
/p p: p:' b b: b:'/ > /p b b f pʼ pʼ/
/t t: t:' d d: d:'/ > /t t t d tʼ tʼ/
/k k: k:' g g: g:'/ > /ĉ k q ĵ kʼ qʼ/
This is about what Proto-Sylgwn should look like - a bastardized NWC. It's not perfect yet, though. (Where does *g come from? It does need to exist.)
COL PL COL-PL NLR NOM dôna dômhia dôua dômhiua dôrua ACC dô dômhi dôu dômhiu dôru POS* do dômh dô dômhi dôr DAT dômbeᴴ dômhibeᴴ dôubheᴴ dômhiubheᴴ dôrubeᴴ PREP dôn dômhi dôu dômhiu dôru TEM dôm dômhi dôu dômhiu dôru LOC dôm dômhif dôuḟ dômhiuḟ dôruf VOC dôy dômhiy dôuẏ dômhiuẏ dôruy *genitive (combining form) triggers in plural COL PL COL-PL NOM ribhlóna ribhlómhia ribhlóua ribhlómhiua ACC ribhló ribhlómhi ribhlóu ribhlómhiu POS* ribh ribhlómh ribhló ribhlómhi DAT ribhlómbeḟ ribhlómhibeḟ ribhlóubheḟ ribhlómhiubheḟ PREP ribhlón ribhlómhi ribhlóu ribhlómhiu TEM ribhlóm ribhlómhi ribhlóu ribhlómhiu LOC ribhlómh ribhlómhif ribhlóuḟ ribhlómhiuḟ VOC ribhlóy ribhlómhiy ribhlóuẏ ribhlómhiuẏ nomew > dobhé wôrmôw > loró nāmvon > ámbo aorist progressive immediate _________________________________________________________ 1 dómbhelhé lórolé ámbonhé 2 dómbhelhín lóroli ámbonhín Prs 3A dómbhella lórolla ámbodhla 3I dómbhelhrímh lórolli ámbodhri _______ 4 dobhé lóro ámbo 1 dobhélhé lorólé abóndhé 2 dobhélhín loróli abóndhín Fut 3A dobhélla lorólla abóndhla 3I dómbhelli lorólli ámbodhri _______ 4 dómbhe loró ámbo 1 dobhélbhê lorólbê abónnê 2 dobhélbheín lorólbei abónneín Past 3A dobhélbhela lorólbela abónnela 3I dómbhelbhéri lorólberi ámbonhéri _______ 4 dómbhelbhe lorólbe ámbonhe
Because they are pretty.
On the other hand, I would like to consider Proto-Sylgwn.
Suppose Elmin's vowel system was actually a result of ATR: so /e V u/ with ATR, /E a o/ without, and /i 1/ are neutral. This probably isn't how ATR works, but I'm rolling with it anyway.
NC > C. NN > N' (the ' marks fortis, idk what it is.)
ATR correlates with breathy voice, so following stops become breathy-voiced > devoiced. This probably isn't how things work either, but I am beyond caring right now.
I think the vowel system right now does a Tocharian. Perhaps even identically, except that I also want to pull a labialization contrast out of there.
Syncope affects every other syllable; the stressed syllable is the one that is not syncoped.
NC > CC, so now we have /p p: p:' b b: b:'/. The outcome of this varies per position, however:
/p p: p:' b b: b:'/ > /p b b f pʼ pʼ/
/t t: t:' d d: d:'/ > /t t t d tʼ tʼ/
/k k: k:' g g: g:'/ > /ĉ k q ĵ kʼ qʼ/
This is about what Proto-Sylgwn should look like - a bastardized NWC. It's not perfect yet, though. (Where does *g come from? It does need to exist.)
Note to self: post Weyötiss somewhere (not here, it's more than a scratchpad)
New language: Standard Maat'l
Phonology: /e ẽ u d t b c s W Z_0 H g ɣ/. The language also has ATR harmony, although this is neutralized in the case of /ɣ Z_0 g/. /H/ is not realized, but colors neighboring consonants and vowels—however, it does not affect /ɣ/ or /g/.
zero - dud+
one - udu+
New language: Standard Maat'l
Phonology: /e ẽ u d t b c s W Z_0 H g ɣ/. The language also has ATR harmony, although this is neutralized in the case of /ɣ Z_0 g/. /H/ is not realized, but colors neighboring consonants and vowels—however, it does not affect /ɣ/ or /g/.
zero - dud+
one - udu+
I didn't really deal with l/r or gm/gn. So:
gN [ɰN] > ɢN > ɢ (or q)
/k k: k:' g g: g:'/ > /ĉ č k ĵ ǰ kʼ/ (idk the exact identities, but ĉ was probably a sibilant and č an affricate)
/q q: q:' ɢ ɢ: ɢ:'/ > /q q qˤ g kʼ kʼ/
the middle stage of r r' l l' is r ṛ l ɬ, kind of
Cl' > tɬ etc. Cl > tš, Cr' > ṭṣ, Cr > ts
r'C > ṭ. rC > ṭ near high vowels, otherwise > t. l(')C > šC
r(')l > l/ḷ as above, rl' > ɬ, r'l' > ɬ̣
lr(') > r, otherwise as reverse
Also, fixing up the vowel system a bit:
A better system of pairs is (i : ɨ) :: (y : u) :: (e : o) :: (ɛ : ɔ), with /a/ neutral. Thus I can just say that consonants were devoiced before the latter pair (the inverse happened in Oghuz). /a/ was back [ɑ], so also devoicing there. i/ɨ > ʲä, y/u > ʷä, e/o > ä, ɛ/ɔ > e, a > a (but probably e > a later except in some dialect or sth.) Thus:
túinde > *tʷä́idä > tʷid
bearanna > *bésaNa > ban (with irregular syncope of *a)
mairellëonda > *mairäɬä́äda > maiɬad (maiɬd?)
tumbendandur > *tʷäbä́dätʷär > tʷäbatsʷ (tt > t)
banneanhemmuean > *paNeŊä́Mʷäen > paŋamʷ
regmannulluillear > *räqaNʷä́LʷäiLer > qanʷaɬʷiɬ
giellammeramean > *gʲäLaMä́ramen > dɮʲamam
I need to fix the frequencies in my generator, but this is looking better I think
gN [ɰN] > ɢN > ɢ (or q)
/k k: k:' g g: g:'/ > /ĉ č k ĵ ǰ kʼ/ (idk the exact identities, but ĉ was probably a sibilant and č an affricate)
/q q: q:' ɢ ɢ: ɢ:'/ > /q q qˤ g kʼ kʼ/
the middle stage of r r' l l' is r ṛ l ɬ, kind of
Cl' > tɬ etc. Cl > tš, Cr' > ṭṣ, Cr > ts
r'C > ṭ. rC > ṭ near high vowels, otherwise > t. l(')C > šC
r(')l > l/ḷ as above, rl' > ɬ, r'l' > ɬ̣
lr(') > r, otherwise as reverse
Also, fixing up the vowel system a bit:
A better system of pairs is (i : ɨ) :: (y : u) :: (e : o) :: (ɛ : ɔ), with /a/ neutral. Thus I can just say that consonants were devoiced before the latter pair (the inverse happened in Oghuz). /a/ was back [ɑ], so also devoicing there. i/ɨ > ʲä, y/u > ʷä, e/o > ä, ɛ/ɔ > e, a > a (but probably e > a later except in some dialect or sth.) Thus:
túinde > *tʷä́idä > tʷid
bearanna > *bésaNa > ban (with irregular syncope of *a)
mairellëonda > *mairäɬä́äda > maiɬad (maiɬd?)
tumbendandur > *tʷäbä́dätʷär > tʷäbatsʷ (tt > t)
banneanhemmuean > *paNeŊä́Mʷäen > paŋamʷ
regmannulluillear > *räqaNʷä́LʷäiLer > qanʷaɬʷiɬ
giellammeramean > *gʲäLaMä́ramen > dɮʲamam
I need to fix the frequencies in my generator, but this is looking better I think
quoting twabs, Conversational Speaker, /ˈajwʌ/:Better to call that branch "proto-ichthys"... assuming I'll keep it at all, which I'm sort of iffy on right now. The other branch Proto-*fruit I like better. Turns out obscure fruits make great language names. (Proto-*, by the way, is from the Unix for "all-encompassing".)
Synopsis: Phonology and samples for a new laryngeal language.
I remember once my history teacher explained Hannibal's force as comprising "70,000 infantry, 12,000 cavalry, and, just for fun, 37 elephants." It is in a similar vein that I introduce this phonology, which has 13 consonants, 10 vowels, and, just for fun, 37 laryngeals. Well, okay, not that many, but it's got enough underspecified <h> characters to put PIE to shame. The consonants are p t k q /k_w/ ṭ /t`/ f s ṣ m n ṇ l ḷ, the vowels are a ā i ī u ū ai āi au āu, and the laryngeals are h ḥ h̭ r ȟ ḫ x ẖ ħ and h37. Kidding, kidding, the last one is ḩ.
Here are some of the other slogans I thought of for this language: "Indic meets Iranian", "Birdlang discovers the letter H", "...and a thousand laryngeals"
And here's a vague sample I pulled out of my hat: H̭tanahħī qusmaxxaiḫ aṣ ḥaṇāthiyaȟ paṭṭikah aṣ fauḫa, kīẖ ẖpawāh̭xas tayȟā laiṣḩ ḩrawiyāuk, ḩi taiḫ aḷaḥāim-h̭i.
Or you could juh5t write Englih7 in h5uth7 a manner ah6 to underh5peh5ih1y all h3e h1ricatih2h6 ah6 laryndh8ealh6.
Maotic is an... actually it's ok really but it needs to be better. Now that I know somewhat more things about linguistics let's try to re-derive it from first principles.
Common substantives: agróme/agró- "forest", tolet/toléith "tree", taló- "river", namó "sea", ash "ocean", cásper "warm", etkai "island", édris "mountains", elmin(-) "world", cár "land(s)", actó "rift", atlas "great", harad "plains", ablés "storms", cuerol "southern", fír/fíre- "green", alóné "eastern", tárá "far", phato "map". also in "of", ó "to" and á "or".
Proper substantives (probably): Anarós (grassland/prairie?), Mádrós (hills?), Khazad (island), Tabin, Únus (seas), Été (desert); ptolies: Alto, Barith, Sónor, Khélo, Rames Arés, Dorós, Magrós, Mentos, Avalos, Sevros, Ekto Exol (see below), Ekto Mádros (see above), Valias, Andu, Tolao, Ashen (obviously derived from ash "ocean"), Uléné, Tíraló, Malox, Túna, Aspen, Cabotel, Maotel, Akol Bílé, Dalia, Arda; rivers: Ros, Molcrá, Peréx, Málat, Úrol, Mafnil, Exol, Duerol, Septé, Únus, Dekret, Tí, Cabor, Maoth, Dálx, Dzao, Aman; Emaox, Coláera, Ímladris.
-et/-éith should be dialectal variation. -cár alongside ó cár demonstrates both a lack of extensive case inflection (as had previously been assumed) *and* a lack of number. elmin kind of belies even a genitive, so we can assume either nom/acc or nothing at all, and I'm leaning toward nothing at this point—I'll do a full ie-style ablaut system somewhere else.
we already have two -ó words, so river is also taló. the -me in agróme is... a suffix that got generalized, but the compounding stem is still agró-.
ash is the only word with sh, so it's loaned. what is an ocean anyway
we have most things postpositive: sea warm, forest tree, sea storm, plain south, mountain world, rift great, sea east, island tree—but two prepositive; green mountain and far land. the latter is not in a name, so it is more likely to be the usual pattern at least for adjectives. we could say that genitive nouns are postpositive and adjectives are prepositive, so *sea warmth and *rift great...ness?
having c/k both be /k/ is boring. c should be something else, so /kʲ/ regularly but /ts/ in many dialects. fír < fíre with apocope. -s is always syllable-final, so other instances of *s delete. *c before front vowels becomes *s and similarly deletes.
there is one -ol, and about five more in PNs. this is probably a suffix then
The phonology of proto-* obstruents, previously thought to be /p b t d tʼ ɗ k g q/, has thus been amended to /p ˀp pʰ t ˀt tʰ c ˀc cʰ k ˀk kʰ s/ (hi Leiden), which is much more pleasant. I'm inclined to keep the six vowels and the single nasal, because they're unstable, and also I'm going to add original *r to *ʁ.
Vowels might go differently, though. Native words have a/e/i/o with length, and ai, éi (?), ue. ue < *ū, and ai/éi are original diphthongs, so at least one dialect of Maotic lost final -i before consonants, and I guess the other had Vi > V:i or sth.
Common substantives: agróme/agró- "forest", tolet/toléith "tree", taló- "river", namó "sea", ash "ocean", cásper "warm", etkai "island", édris "mountains", elmin(-) "world", cár "land(s)", actó "rift", atlas "great", harad "plains", ablés "storms", cuerol "southern", fír/fíre- "green", alóné "eastern", tárá "far", phato "map". also in "of", ó "to" and á "or".
Proper substantives (probably): Anarós (grassland/prairie?), Mádrós (hills?), Khazad (island), Tabin, Únus (seas), Été (desert); ptolies: Alto, Barith, Sónor, Khélo, Rames Arés, Dorós, Magrós, Mentos, Avalos, Sevros, Ekto Exol (see below), Ekto Mádros (see above), Valias, Andu, Tolao, Ashen (obviously derived from ash "ocean"), Uléné, Tíraló, Malox, Túna, Aspen, Cabotel, Maotel, Akol Bílé, Dalia, Arda; rivers: Ros, Molcrá, Peréx, Málat, Úrol, Mafnil, Exol, Duerol, Septé, Únus, Dekret, Tí, Cabor, Maoth, Dálx, Dzao, Aman; Emaox, Coláera, Ímladris.
-et/-éith should be dialectal variation. -cár alongside ó cár demonstrates both a lack of extensive case inflection (as had previously been assumed) *and* a lack of number. elmin kind of belies even a genitive, so we can assume either nom/acc or nothing at all, and I'm leaning toward nothing at this point—I'll do a full ie-style ablaut system somewhere else.
we already have two -ó words, so river is also taló. the -me in agróme is... a suffix that got generalized, but the compounding stem is still agró-.
ash is the only word with sh, so it's loaned. what is an ocean anyway
we have most things postpositive: sea warm, forest tree, sea storm, plain south, mountain world, rift great, sea east, island tree—but two prepositive; green mountain and far land. the latter is not in a name, so it is more likely to be the usual pattern at least for adjectives. we could say that genitive nouns are postpositive and adjectives are prepositive, so *sea warmth and *rift great...ness?
having c/k both be /k/ is boring. c should be something else, so /kʲ/ regularly but /ts/ in many dialects. fír < fíre with apocope. -s is always syllable-final, so other instances of *s delete. *c before front vowels becomes *s and similarly deletes.
there is one -ol, and about five more in PNs. this is probably a suffix then
The phonology of proto-* obstruents, previously thought to be /p b t d tʼ ɗ k g q/, has thus been amended to /p ˀp pʰ t ˀt tʰ c ˀc cʰ k ˀk kʰ s/ (hi Leiden), which is much more pleasant. I'm inclined to keep the six vowels and the single nasal, because they're unstable, and also I'm going to add original *r to *ʁ.
Vowels might go differently, though. Native words have a/e/i/o with length, and ai, éi (?), ue. ue < *ū, and ai/éi are original diphthongs, so at least one dialect of Maotic lost final -i before consonants, and I guess the other had Vi > V:i or sth.
I found an old paper of conlang notes. Most of them are bad but there's a list of inflections that we could potentially do something with. They were originally a list of way too many cases, but they're going to be verbal inflections now.
okaja
o
otges
otʝīt
otɕâ
otʝīph
opədêr
opədīt
opəpâ
opənpēh
The stem, let's say, is *okʷ < *nokʷ. So otges, otʝīt, otɕâ, otʝiph are from okdes, okdīt, oktʲâ, okdipah by metathesis. I'll probably put this in * somewhere but I don't have the rest of my notes right now.
okaja
o
otges
otʝīt
otɕâ
otʝīph
opədêr
opədīt
opəpâ
opənpēh
The stem, let's say, is *okʷ < *nokʷ. So otges, otʝīt, otɕâ, otʝiph are from okdes, okdīt, oktʲâ, okdipah by metathesis. I'll probably put this in * somewhere but I don't have the rest of my notes right now.
okaja is infinitive. o is probably imperative.
otges is imperfective present. In the past otʝīt is used.
otʝīt is habitual present. opədīt is habitual past.
otɕa is perfective present. opəpâ is perfective past.
otʝīph is hortatitve present.
opənpēh is whatever the 'should have' mood is called; usually past but sometimes present.
opədêr is optative.
The language is either Low Tavarian or High Tavarian. I'm not sure which. My intuition says Low, but I want to place these closer to the (southern) Taol languages so they can have some similarity in verbal morphology.
Meanwhile:
Caighir is a distant descendant of the Maotic language. It is the standard dialect; another dialect is called Thâgwhanaigh. In Caighir these are pronounced [ˈkʲæɣɨʁ] and [ˌθag.wəˈnəɪ]. In Thagwhanaigh they are pronounced /tʃeɪɹ/ and /tʃɜ̀ːwaːniː/. The etymology of the latter is (point of divergence) *tʰaːgwanakʲe < (Maotic) *Thao-kuelin-óké. The -óké suffix is the same one as in Soróké, a dialect of Maotic.
otges is imperfective present. In the past otʝīt is used.
otʝīt is habitual present. opədīt is habitual past.
otɕa is perfective present. opəpâ is perfective past.
otʝīph is hortatitve present.
opənpēh is whatever the 'should have' mood is called; usually past but sometimes present.
opədêr is optative.
The language is either Low Tavarian or High Tavarian. I'm not sure which. My intuition says Low, but I want to place these closer to the (southern) Taol languages so they can have some similarity in verbal morphology.
Meanwhile:
Caighir is a distant descendant of the Maotic language. It is the standard dialect; another dialect is called Thâgwhanaigh. In Caighir these are pronounced [ˈkʲæɣɨʁ] and [ˌθag.wəˈnəɪ]. In Thagwhanaigh they are pronounced /tʃeɪɹ/ and /tʃɜ̀ːwaːniː/. The etymology of the latter is (point of divergence) *tʰaːgwanakʲe < (Maotic) *Thao-kuelin-óké. The -óké suffix is the same one as in Soróké, a dialect of Maotic.
j is /j/
honestly in general using <j> as a fricative is against my aesthetic.
okaja, o, otges, otcīt, otćâ, otcīph, opedêr, opedīt, opepâ, openpēh
macron and circumflex are original and secondary length; the latter is from contraction and the former is from some sort of stress-based lengthening (considering *okʷdipah and *okʷədipah or something, say stress is on the second syllable?)
honestly in general using <j> as a fricative is against my aesthetic.
okaja, o, otges, otcīt, otćâ, otcīph, opedêr, opedīt, opepâ, openpēh
macron and circumflex are original and secondary length; the latter is from contraction and the former is from some sort of stress-based lengthening (considering *okʷdipah and *okʷədipah or something, say stress is on the second syllable?)
Láadan is actually a pretty language (fight me), so I am going to make a derivative out of it.
It does have some nooblang problems which will need to be retconned, however. I feel like the phonology honestly doesn't have to be one of these—it's weird, but I feel like it's kind of plausibly weird.
A thing which does to be retconned is the noobish phenomenon (which really needs a name) of forming a group of related words with by changing only one phoneme—e.g. the evidentials wa, wi, we, wáa, waá, wo, wóo (and there are other examples). Accordingly I will change these. (I will also remove the last one, which is supposed to simply be a null marking anyway.)
I am also getting rid of the "speech act" markers (the things that go at the beginning of the sentence), except for báa which will remain as an interrogative marker.
Hence, here is a brief grammar of Improved Láadan:
TENSE - PERSON/HON - NUMBER - ATTRIB - ASPECT - root - GENDER - COMP - NEG - HABIT - EVID
Tense: aril- future1, é- past, rilrili- subjunctive, wi- optative.
Person: le- first, ne- second, behid- third masculine, behizh- third feminine.
Honorifics: -i deferential, -a intimate, lhe- formal. The first two combine with a final bowel (li-, la-); the last precedes the person marking (lheli-).
Number: zhe- paucal, me- plural. Before a sonorant these become zh-, n-.
Attributive marker: wo-
Aspect: du- conative, ná- continuative, raa- iterative, elith- cessative.
Gender: -id marks masculinity. How could we forget our favourite feature of Láadan? Note that when the subject is incorporated into the verb, gender will actually be marked twice.
Complementizer: -hé2
Negative suffix: -ra
Habitual suffix: -badan3
Degree: -hal4 comparative, -háalik superlative; -ulh anticomparative, -úulhik antisuperlative.
Evidentiality: -álh perceived, -wi self-evident, -yen dreamt, -atháá trusted, -waálh untrusted.
I am slightly concerned there are too many things here... hmm.
It does have some nooblang problems which will need to be retconned, however. I feel like the phonology honestly doesn't have to be one of these—it's weird, but I feel like it's kind of plausibly weird.
A thing which does to be retconned is the noobish phenomenon (which really needs a name) of forming a group of related words with by changing only one phoneme—e.g. the evidentials wa, wi, we, wáa, waá, wo, wóo (and there are other examples). Accordingly I will change these. (I will also remove the last one, which is supposed to simply be a null marking anyway.)
I am also getting rid of the "speech act" markers (the things that go at the beginning of the sentence), except for báa which will remain as an interrogative marker.
Hence, here is a brief grammar of Improved Láadan:
Verbs
TENSE - PERSON/HON - NUMBER - ATTRIB - ASPECT - root - GENDER - COMP - NEG - HABIT - EVID
Tense: aril- future1, é- past, rilrili- subjunctive, wi- optative.
Person: le- first, ne- second, behid- third masculine, behizh- third feminine.
Honorifics: -i deferential, -a intimate, lhe- formal. The first two combine with a final bowel (li-, la-); the last precedes the person marking (lheli-).
Number: zhe- paucal, me- plural. Before a sonorant these become zh-, n-.
Attributive marker: wo-
Aspect: du- conative, ná- continuative, raa- iterative, elith- cessative.
Gender: -id marks masculinity. How could we forget our favourite feature of Láadan? Note that when the subject is incorporated into the verb, gender will actually be marked twice.
Complementizer: -hé2
Negative suffix: -ra
Habitual suffix: -badan3
Degree: -hal4 comparative, -háalik superlative; -ulh anticomparative, -úulhik antisuperlative.
Evidentiality: -álh perceived, -wi self-evident, -yen dreamt, -atháá trusted, -waálh untrusted.
I am slightly concerned there are too many things here... hmm.